bride and prejudiced, week three: love the one you're with
hey gang - thanks again for being involved in the sermon review team. as we wind up our conversation on the bride of christ, i'd like you all to reflect on the following themes:
#1 now that we've heard three weeks, a complete series, on the metaphor how has god shaped and changed your understanding of him? of your relationship to him? of our [the church's] relationship to him?
#2 week 3 took a turn from weeks 1 and 2. how did that shift - from critique and commentary to vision and direction - affect your perception on the whole series? were you personally challenged by what a missional/incarnational church should be? do you feel like you understand "mission" and "incarnation" better because of the talk? what tools do you need to be able to be more missional, or more incarnational? and, are you willing to just go ahead and try without those tools until they are supplied?
#3 putting yourself in my shoes for a moment, what themes/ideas from this series do you think need to be reiterated? and how? i.e. what lessons have we only partially learned here, and how can we better lead our whole church into that understanding?
ok - thanks everyone. i look forwards to hearing from you all!
- dave
#1 now that we've heard three weeks, a complete series, on the metaphor how has god shaped and changed your understanding of him? of your relationship to him? of our [the church's] relationship to him?
#2 week 3 took a turn from weeks 1 and 2. how did that shift - from critique and commentary to vision and direction - affect your perception on the whole series? were you personally challenged by what a missional/incarnational church should be? do you feel like you understand "mission" and "incarnation" better because of the talk? what tools do you need to be able to be more missional, or more incarnational? and, are you willing to just go ahead and try without those tools until they are supplied?
#3 putting yourself in my shoes for a moment, what themes/ideas from this series do you think need to be reiterated? and how? i.e. what lessons have we only partially learned here, and how can we better lead our whole church into that understanding?
ok - thanks everyone. i look forwards to hearing from you all!
- dave
posted by david mcdonald at 7:51 AM
8 Comments:
This was my fav of the three sermons, Dave!
#1 I think the idea you mentioned of God thinking of us as a "bride" (as opposed to a "wife") stretched my thinking most. I've heard some guys refer to their wife as their bride long after the wedding and thought it was sweet, but your explanation goes way beyond that--it helped me to appreciate the metaphor more deeply and see that God wants us to be fresh, full of hope and promise and anticipation and eagerness--forever, not just for one Saturday afternoon in June. He wants the "honeymoon period" to be a long lasting.
#2 Yes, I felt personally challenged to look at what I can do locally to live "incarnationally" (be the hands and feet of Christ)with people who are right under my nose everyday. (Well, maybe not right under my nose because that would be kinda icky and besides, I'm short, so there aren't that many people who would fit right under my nose, but you get the idea.)
#3 I think the idea that may need to be reiterated is our need to start right where we are in expressing God's love. We need to be reminded of opportunities that are available. I think our church does a pretty good job of that--encouraging people to get involved with Relay for Life or with the Katrina relief effort--but maybe we need something on one of our web sites that gives a breakdown of things people can do on a daily/weekly/monthly basis with varying time/monetary commitments. I realize folks around here are smart and can figure out some of this one their own, but for me, sometimes it takes someone else--a tour guide--to say, hey, look at that over there! to make me notice what's been there all along.
#1 - I am reminded of how gracious and kind our God is; how much He gives us when we don't deserve it. It's humbling to remember that everything I have is not mine but given from the Lord. As a church (churches in general) we have done a great job of putting God in a box and doing what we think it means to be a Christian which in history has proven to be rules and regulations. This continued realization inspires me to continue on the thought process of what God would really have His church body be and do.
#2 - First of all I loved the direction you went with for this last message. I liked how you took the different imageries and put it into application. Emphasizing "love" was a strong point. It is not only the truth but something people can relate to and say, "yeah i can do that". I think personally I understood at least somewhat about being missional/incarnational but maybe in other words. I totally agree that this should be the focus of the church and appreciate the church leadership confronting it. It's a big challenge but one that needs to take place. Regarding tools I think other believers need to continue hearing about it and learning to be able to apply. I am definitally willing to try to be more missional/incarnational.
#3 - Themes to be reiterated: Love, what it means to be the bride of Christ, missional, incarnational. Being Jesus to our community, missions minded. I think we (as a church) have only just begun to uncover what it really means to be church. As far as the how... by example, by exposure, prayer, God changing our hearts! thats a really hard question.. i need to think some more on that one..
P.S. I really got a lot out of the Sea of Galilee vs. Dead Sea analogy.
#1. How has god shaped and changed your understanding of him? >> The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know. I don't think I can ever underestimate the challenge I/we have understanding god with our finite minds, and that is why the work of the Holy Spirit is so cool. The need we as humans & the church have for "Hope", built into us, and satisfied through Christ is really a very cool mystery to me.
#2 A very nice/neat/clean shift & packaged process. The references made to exercising "mission" every day in little ways is I believe something to build on! Growing up in the church the bigger "mission" & "incarnation" concepts have been clear, but I think too often I/we have lost the pragmatic value of the "mission". I thought of an old saying I heard as a kid years ago and I think it is still true for the church today and that is we are often "so heavenly minded we're no earthly good". This is the world I and I believe many christians find themselves in. Cognitive alignment but too often lack the practical, pragmatic action.
>>> I don't think tools are needed, rather "un-learning" may be needed. Un-learning the requirement to memorize the four spiritual laws, or feeling like we need a road-map to follow. Perhaps learning what Christ truly meant when he talked about letting our "light shine before men that they would see our good works and glorify God in heaven". I think that I and perhaps others have a distorted view of what that means.
#3. I've heard the spin on the two seas over the past five decades and it is aways fresh and experiencial everytime I hear it! I'm not one for accollades but fact is you nailed it! We I believe need to better understand how God has designed this world and us, that the parrellels are endless between nature and the laws that govern it and man kind. What a great link here to freedom of choice and how bad things happen to good people. I sometimes feel like I've barely begun to scratch the surface of who God really is in relation to this whole world he has set in motion. How finite we try to make him.
P.S. Additional Themes: There's gotta be a mountain of material linked with the types of virgins, those who "thought ahead" and those who did not. Were those who didn't think ahead bad? How are we like them? What separates the two? Us from them? If the virgins were truly in "community" would they have all been better prepared?
Also, love the them referece to "love the one you're with"! One ENORMOUS TOOL of the enemy is to distract us from enjoying where we are! What we have! Who we're with! The present day! Learning what Paul truly meant when he said that he had "learned" to be content no matter what his state of being!! That is emense, packed, pregnant! What does it mean to be conent and yet also diligent, wise and thrifty! (endless stuff...:--0)
1. I never really understood why the church was called the “bride” of Christ. However, I feel like I get it now. The clear compare and contrast between a “bride” and a “wife” really helped. The bride is fresh and full of anticipation. She excitedly waits for her bridegroom. The “wife” is already one with her husband and they have grown accustomed to each other’s ways. It reminded me of the differences I see between WW and the Catholic Church I grew-up in. To me, WW is the bride. Fresh, new, current. People are eager to learn together, help each other, and grow in community. My childhood Catholic Church was the wife. Older, more mature, set in their ways. When questioned about why something is done a certain way, it was answered with…because that is the way it has been done forever. To change it now would be unfaithful to our traditions.
This series helped me understand why I get so fired up about WW and my relationship with Christ. WW helps me be the bride by reminding me that I am the bride (not the wife) and need to keep my relationship with Christ fresh and new. Ever waiting for my bridegroom by preparing and readying myself for his return.
2. The shift to vision and direction in the series was good. In the previous week, your sermon seemed to beg the question of what next and how. I think the story of the Sea of Galilee vs. the Dead Sea analogy was awesome in showing what next. We have a choice. We can either keep what we know to ourselves and be without life like the Dead Sea or give away what we were so freely given like the Sea of Galilee. And the how by setting up the WW community page and getting people more connected. I know that I am really excited to get more involved. I love that the Orthodox thingy class is being offered right now.
I feel like I have a better understand of what a missional church should be. And it helps that you remind people that they don’t have to go out and save the world. The can make a huge difference right here in Jackson.
3. I think that we as a whole need to be reminded that in order to be part of the community, one must actively participate in it. Coming to church, staying for the service, and leaving is not active participation in community.
Randy made a really good point during the offering. He talked about how the offering was a unique part of our service because it was the only part that asked for our active participation. Why not also challenge people to not only give from their checkbook but to give of themselves- their time. So it feels good to give and know your offering is helping others. Great! But how much more rewarding if you could see firsthand what your offering is doing. Volunteering is a wonderful way to really know that you truly are making a difference.
Clear teachings, staight on talk about WE.
The contast - similarity between the missionaries encounter with the "door is shut" and the "bridesmaids parable highlights my our need to continually be prepared - prepared to love every person I encounter right now. God is and he wants to depend on me to do the same.
Truly enjoyed the aspects of loving people where they are at - locaility. Lovingly encountering "We" next door, at the store, church etc. The ability to share our interconnectedness, the giving of ourselves promotes WE, and prompts vitalty. The "sister seas" exemplify nicely how WE renew each other by sharing what God has freely given us thru grace.
Missionality is certainly part of the bride. Whe WE pursue actions intending to glorify God, he is seeing us as the "resplendid" bride we are shaped to become.
Bottom line - the series prompted me to rethink what am I doing to promote God's love in ALL my encounters.
PS Listened to the sermon on CD. I completed the "walk to Emmaus" this past weekend. Truly an experience in unconditional love and grace.
hey gang - thanks for all your comments. your encouragement and feedback really do help me to better prepare for future sermons.
i'm glad that these are the kinds of emphases we're all picking up. i'm glad that a missional orientation is represented in our conversations and that we all are beginning to feel like we can be involved that way in our regular lives [without a "special event" to drive us].
thanks!
p.s. don't forget to use your real name when you choose an identity so we know who is posting.
p.p.s. sorry about the blog spam, that just happens sometimes and we'll just have to ignore it for now.
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond...computer trouble has kept me out of the conversation this week. So. I will try to respond intelligently even though it has been a week :-)
#1 The Bride vs the wife analogy was so profound for me. I am a pre-marital and marital therapist and I talk about these very differences in my office (however, I am not quite as eloquent as Dave :-)The anticipation, excitement, joy, sense of humor etc. that a bride feels can be replaced so quickly as we enter the "wife zone". Same is so true with the church.....indifference and complacency not only kill a relationship but they destroy the very essence in the church. I am glad that WE as a church will not accept these attitudes!
#2 The field I am in and how I am naturally and spiritually wired allow the incarnational and missional to be a huge part of my life. I think if people would stop and look at their lives objectively and evaluate whether or not they have natural incarnational/missional opportunities it's not such a hard thing to sell.
#3 Missional/incarnational should be our buzzzzzzz words...or something that means the same thing. Teach people to "ask" God to provide a daily or weekly opportunity....give examples constantly about what this looks like...use "life stories" frequently...these are so helpful. I hear good things when we let others speak about their personal experiences.
God is sooooo involved in where we are headed right now. Growing and acting on the new knowledge we have can be a very difficult process for many people. I think leadership needs to constantly be good discerners of what the "WE" needs, to take the action steps necessary to experience growth i.e. sometimes we need a kick in the pants, an encouraging word, someone to come along side, or a strong challenge. Messages become the perfect vehicle to do this!
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