fed on lies about love: teaching you a lesson again, and again, and again
hey gang - this week jvo is taking the reins while i visit another church in lansing [to steal ideas and get a little fresh perspective].
so - please bear in mind that some of our conversation will be a little different this week as we orient our comments towards team teaching, different voice, etc...
so..
#1 what value is there in having two speakers present the same story from two different perspectives? what does jvo bring to the text that is unique? in what ways is his reading different from mine? how do you feel the two balance each other out? if you only got one perspective, what would you be missing?
#2 now that the parable of steve and angela is complete [you did get that it was fictional, right?] what have you learned about their story? how has god used their story to teach you about your life? in what ways do steve and angela differ from hosea and gomer? what makes this parable imperfect? what makes it uncomfortable?
#3 jvo used a pretty graphic illustration - how did it hit you? do you think you'll remember his point with the illustration of the manequin? did it overshadow the rest of what he was saying, or reinforce it?
#4 as always, i'm very interested in any other comments you'd like to make about this week's teaching and/or the series as a whole. feel free to let your creative and/or critical mind speak freely.
thanks again!
so - please bear in mind that some of our conversation will be a little different this week as we orient our comments towards team teaching, different voice, etc...
so..
#1 what value is there in having two speakers present the same story from two different perspectives? what does jvo bring to the text that is unique? in what ways is his reading different from mine? how do you feel the two balance each other out? if you only got one perspective, what would you be missing?
#2 now that the parable of steve and angela is complete [you did get that it was fictional, right?] what have you learned about their story? how has god used their story to teach you about your life? in what ways do steve and angela differ from hosea and gomer? what makes this parable imperfect? what makes it uncomfortable?
#3 jvo used a pretty graphic illustration - how did it hit you? do you think you'll remember his point with the illustration of the manequin? did it overshadow the rest of what he was saying, or reinforce it?
#4 as always, i'm very interested in any other comments you'd like to make about this week's teaching and/or the series as a whole. feel free to let your creative and/or critical mind speak freely.
thanks again!
posted by david mcdonald at 1:44 PM
5 Comments:
I think that team preaching is a great idea as long as every member can connect his sermon to the previous, and that was done well. The bennefits from team preaching are primarily perspective and different insight. Plus, two heads can generate more ideas such as the manequin which made me quite uncomfortable but that was part of the beauty of it. Although it made me uneasy it really brought out the depth and true meaning of the story. I though it was very creative and because of that it will pop into my head when walking through the mall (which is good). This week really showed how much God does love us even after we betray him over, and over, and over again. Because the thing is that he doesn't need us at all and yet he chooses to put himself in that situation, just waiting for us to come back to him. Today that was very real to me and now i understank a little bit more of how vast his love for me is. These past couple of weeks have been hard for me and I needed the reassuance that he is still there, just waiting.
This is quite lengthy...I thought I wouldn't have much to say...
I have enjoyed hearing both jvo and dave in these messages.
I see jvo as being using more direct language of our culture. Hearing "boy toy" and hussy, slut...has me red faced but gets my attention. Jvo speaks like he sings I think. It is right there in front, a little twist from Midwestern straightness! My nephew loved the music and "guy" singing when he visited a couple of weeks ago...he was speaking of jvo--that is awesome!!
I see that jvo puts it right out there, warts and all... and Dave says it bottom line, just more of a reserved nature, kinda like "o.k., I am gonna say this...meets individuals like me where I am, more reserved, not so out in the open with the details. I heard both, just received each a little differently. I think we reach more audiences when we mix it up. Some relate well to one, some to the other.
As far as the parable of Steve & Angela, I understand jvo to say that it is a true story. Now maybe he was relating to the fact that I am sure it was true for someone in real life listening. Bottom line for me is that we are all broken in some shape or form. God is always ready to rescue me from whatever life might bring my way, even if it is sheer joy and peace; He celebrates that with me.
He carries me through the bad times. I have to be willing to let him. I have to be willing to start again one more time. To forgive and be forgiven.
I don't see a difference in Steve & Angela's story compared to Hosea & Gomer except in it's historical date and that we don't know if Hosea payed off what would be Gomer's last lover.
We are so imperfect. God is so perfect. His love is so perfect.
Jvo's words that Jesus spoke, "It is finished" really made so much sense for this message end. My debt is paid in full...God was thinking of me all along and continues to...the best HOPE can offer. If we could keep in mind in relationships with our husbands/spouse that the courtship and the wedding day do give us hope. I have said to those asking me what do? My reply is, "what did you first see in him that attracted you? What did you feel like in the beginning--go back to that place, remember it."
To think that God wants me to have that freshness and "high" in my life daily with him. I know that He is present and I am not always present in the relationship with him. Just like in marriage. It takes effort and work in both relationships. I wonder how many less divorces there would be if individuals in marriages would pursue each other like God pursues us. I am not bashing those divorced o.k. ...just relized how much effort God puts into a relatlionship with me and me not offering my best or pursuing him or being willing to give my best effort.
As far as the mannequin, well, I can honestly say I will never look at one quite the same again. It was a powerful visual. The skimpy outfit made me squirm, but it is reality; it was quite reserved for a prostitute, but very true for our 13 year old to relate to. Thank you!!! My image of church can be so reserved for what I think church should look like. You can hear by my comment that I was raised in a traditional background. So much of what I have seen at Westwinds is non traditional. I am grateful for leaders willingness to go straight for the jugular and just put it out there; afterall, this is what it is and if we can't talk about it being real in church where are we going to hear/see/feel it -- probably not go there at all and miss out on an opportunity to share Jesus!
I think it is great that the both of you have teamed up to present this message. I think both of you are brave with your choice of words. Both of you are real. Because you use the language the congregation and people of Jackson use, we listen to you. It lets me know that we are together on this journey toward a wonderful relationship with God. I see John’s uniqueness being he is a edgy but is not afraid to show his emotions. I think the both of you are on the same page. Dave, your reading appears to be methodical. You share your humor and your personal experiences. You are safe but not afraid to backhand us once in a while with a jolt of reality. John is in a different position. I think that most of the regulars are waiting for the backhand. I actually used to invite people to come when it was just John so they could receive a little of the backhanded slap. It's real, and the both of you are not that different to me, so I am not sure what I would have missed if I had only recieved the story from one of you.
I learned that God is nuts. How can he keep loving us? There story of sin is our story of sin and God wants to help us. We are often taught to give people chances but I have never heard an adult tell their child to never stop giving people chances. We often tell our children and have been taught to guard ourselves from people who continue to make the same mistakes over and over. It is awesome to know that God has not given up on me because I know that I am an idiot. It is uncomfortable to know that Hosea never gave up on his wife, because like I said before, we are taught by our elders that there does come a time when we can separate ourselves from people who have hurt us, he did not. I don't know what I would do, and that makes me feel uncomfortable.
The mannequin was a great idea for the visual learner. You guys have that multiple intelligence thing down pat. I have been at Westwinds a long time and I walk in there expecting anything so it did not hit me that hard. However, it is fun to look at newcomers and watch them fidget a little. I would love to know what they are thinking.
Your choice of songs that went with this message was great.
Josh
hey gang - thanks for your comments [though, next time - dave hansen - try and remember to choose an identity so your comments aren't posted as "anonymous" :)
we spent a fair amount of time crafting the steve and angela story [it is fictional, btw], in order to make it feel "true" for jackson as much as it was true for god and for hosea.
as far as our differing styles - it just seems right that jvo should be part of the presentation of this series, doesn't it? he's hard hitting, honest, and draws intelligent correspondance between the white-trashiness of the biblical text and the peeled-paint reality of modern marriages.
thanks for all of you being willing to insert yourselves into this story - that's how we're most likely to interact with god through this kind of teaching.
blessings!
I don't think that I can add much other than what has already been eloquently stated regarding the ending of the Hosea series.
I really do like it when you team teach and thus far have found it only to be a method of deepening the overall intent of the teaching, rather than an obstacle, which it could easily be without appropriate communication. Same book, same page, same story with different pictures and words.
I am usually pretty comfortable with whatever illustrations (creative, bizarre, out there) to indicate a point or aspect of God's message AS LONG AS IT IS WITH PURPOSE and takes the truth deeper rather than distract from it. I found the mannequin was done well. The outside clothing change representing an inward transformation was a powerful and effective example of God's hand upon our lives when we allow it.
Regarding Gomer and Hosea, i think my points would only be redundant from past weeks and the more recent comments from other postings, so i will spare the space. I will only say that I just am continually humbled by the story and God's pursuit of someone such as me and yet i am filled with hope that the pursuit isn't just a capture, but an opportunity for me to respond to LOVE by allowing God to transform me into this spotless bride that I could never fathom becoming on my own. I am in awe!
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