a capital experience: koinonia
hey gang - here we are at our last week of this cohort! time sure has flown, though i am looking forwards to breakfast this saturday, dec.2, at the cracker barrel to come full circle in our discussions.
here are the last set of questions for "capital experience."
#1 though the tie-ins between koinonia and jubilee may be more obvious, how do you feel like the three weeks wove together to create a fuller picture of spiritual stewardship? were there some consistent themes tracing through each of the three weeks?
#2 at the end of the series, do you feel like you have enough information/inspiration to continue wrestling with the spiritual implications of how we handle our money? or, do you think that things were left too open-ended? if they were too open, how would you have "closed them out" differently?
#3 how would you summarize the "spirit" of this series in one word?
#4 finally, is there anything you observed that you would like to comment on that i have not given space to do so in either this week's questions or the previous two weeks' questions? [i.e. is there anything - anything at all - you'd like to say but haven't yet had the chance?]
ok - thanks again everyone. you've been a great cohort!
- david
here are the last set of questions for "capital experience."
#1 though the tie-ins between koinonia and jubilee may be more obvious, how do you feel like the three weeks wove together to create a fuller picture of spiritual stewardship? were there some consistent themes tracing through each of the three weeks?
#2 at the end of the series, do you feel like you have enough information/inspiration to continue wrestling with the spiritual implications of how we handle our money? or, do you think that things were left too open-ended? if they were too open, how would you have "closed them out" differently?
#3 how would you summarize the "spirit" of this series in one word?
#4 finally, is there anything you observed that you would like to comment on that i have not given space to do so in either this week's questions or the previous two weeks' questions? [i.e. is there anything - anything at all - you'd like to say but haven't yet had the chance?]
ok - thanks again everyone. you've been a great cohort!
- david
posted by david mcdonald at 2:49 PM
5 Comments:
Alright, I'm going to do a little free flow thinking here...I hope it's all coherent at the end.
So Dave, I thought you did a wonderful job tackling a difficult subject; putting things into context, differentiating between law and spirit, and leaving things open ended forcing people to turn to other sources to decide what to do with giving (hopefully that other "source" is God). As far as leaving the series open-ended, I don't think you can push a spirit vs. law mindset and not leave things open ended.
For me, the common threads or overall summarizations are the ideas of: what OTHERS feel you should give (law) vs what YOU feel you should give (spirit), and the idea of HOW you give (joyful / cheerful / hilarious). After this series, I'm not struggling as much with the amount or type of giving, but more so the "hilarious" giving. I've done well setting up automatic giving that I never have to think about.
So there it is. I think that's all that's going to leak out of my brain for now. So to all a good night...
I am going to run right at this, for me personally. I had a few discussions, but not enough, with key people in my life on this series. So,my experience was of continuing to follow my hear on money, but reach out more with compassionate time. The folks in Acts shared much more than money. Given context, this series has challenged me to look at ways to volunteer more of my time. So, the community aspects of Koinonia and prayer have resulted in some action. I am pursuing volunteering with elderly individuals in the Brooklyn community. I feel strongly lead to action.
Yes, things were left open ended. I do embrace hanging on to things looseley. Despite some of the discussions I had (outside this blog), and akward feeling states, I am comforted by the "between me and God" concept. This has, does, and continues to fill my heart with Spirit leading. Money seems to inflate or inflame some people some of the time. As for me, I am a blessed man who is grateful all Christ has shared with me. I am excited to see what he continues to do with our Westwind Community and each of us.
In a sense we are all part of the Priesthood of all believers. Jesus welcomes us all. I read this A.M., "Take courage... Jesus is calling you" Mark and the blind man,...
Been a great ride. Thanks ALL.
#1- You were very consistent with the 3 weeks; tying in the different things you seemed to be getting at i.e. tithing is biblical not Christian, context is king, etc. This helps bring the point accross clearly.
#2- I definitally think I have enough information, in fact just enough to continue wresting with this issue. For me it started at Bible school where I began learning what the Bible in particular the New Testament said about tithing. I think not coming to a conclusion allows people the freedom to search for an answer. We (Christians) get used to listening and believing whatever we hear. Honestly I kept thinking.. "ok so whats the answer?" This challenges me to think about it for myself. It leaves room for the spirit to work!
#3- Freedom.
#4- I loved that we seemed to be getting to and giving God more room to work through us, the spirit, to see God challenging us to take giving to the next level.
Great series Dave! I think the series and the freedom that was preached caused me to really examine my "attitude" when I give. It has become so robotic, so automatic that the cheerful/joyful part was seriously lacking...this really was that point in the series where I really felt God speaking to me! I think law vs freedom is something I initially wrestle with when I am faced with a "new" biblical concept or challenge. Freedom to decide on the topic came through loud and clear. However, it is harder to "decide" what I will give without the 10% template being the "right" amount! My 16 years in the Baptist church figured out all this stuff for the church member...it kept things under control and provided the acceptable good christian list to follow. The component that was always lacking for me in this environment was the "spirit" part...the joyful/cheerful part. But I think it was because I didn't feel like I had freedom to decide...just me and God decide what I would give...Thanks for such a strong focus on the "spirit of giving". I really wrestled with the idea of looking "good" to other people vs connecting with, and listening to God in this area...then acting on that regardless of what it might look like to other people.
Freedom is also the word I think of when I reflect on this series...freedom to decide what I can give financially,and freedom to decide what I can do for the kingdom, for koinania. Still too many thoughts that I can't put into words......
Okay, here goes . . .
#1 I think you did a good job of reiterating your main points and rationale for what you were proposing. Since a lot of these thoughts were new (at least to me), it helped to hear concepts repeated.
#2 As far as closing out the series differently, I appreciate your willingness to leave things open ended. It shows respect for us and trust in God to do His work in us. I was, however, really confused by your closing questions: Have you done anything wrong? What would you do differently? Huh? It's almost like you were asking us to defend ourselves or say, no guess I haven't so I'll just do what I've always done. (Sometimes I'm a slow to catch on. It's still floating over my head somewhere.)If you were going to end with a question or call to action maybe you could have asked, What is God asking you to do? Will you make a date to discuss this with your spouse this week? Where is God calling you to make changes in your lifestyle or perspective? That sort of thing.
#3 Reconsider (as in reconsider what you thought you knew or were taught about tithing)
#4 I'm struggling with one of your rationale's for rejecting tithing. That being, that Jesus didn't teach us to tithe. I think I can go along with that, but I'm struggling with the idea that we reject something just because we don't have biblical documentation that Jesus Himself talked about it. I have a friend who goes to a church where they don't allow instrumental music during a worship service because there's no mention of the early church using instruments (and BTW, they do meet corporately in a building. To be authentic to the NT, shouldn't they be meeting in homes? Oh, don't get me started.) Aren't there a lot of things about which Jesus was silent? (I realize many issues were covered in principle that can be applied to multiple circumstances.) But what about something like this? Jesus Himself never told us to celebrate Easter or Christmas (and yes, I know these are manmade religious traditions slapped over pagan rituals). Certainly Christ's birth and His resurrection are both biblical and Christian, but should we reject celebrating these events in any form because Jesus never told us specifically to celebrate these events? Isn't Jesus God's logos? Isn't He the living embodiment of God's Word--not simply the gospels, but all of it? I'm probably making much ado about nothing, but I'm still not 100% comfortable with rejecting something on the basis you suggested. (Then again, you're probably right and I'm probably all wet!)
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